Will S+ Engineering 2.1 Detect Duplicated TSTALM Blocks?

Our clients would like to know if S+ Engineering 2.1 (the POSTGRES SQL form) will protect them from potentially significant oversights with respect to TSTALM blocks.

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In Composer and earlier EWS programs, the block number to be tested must be manually entered as the value of Specification S1. A common error happens when working logic is cloned. The block numbers involved are usually correctly changed. However, the new value needed for S1 is sometimes overlooked. The result is always two errors:

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1. The intended (new) block is never tested, so it cannot trigger the intended action.

2. The original block is tested and will trigger an action that is not intended.

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In a scan of 345 systems, this error was found for 125 projects, with 1079 instances, each involving two or more blocks. Instances of as many as six errors involving the same prototype logic have been found in running systems. In a client site visit, we isolated this as the exact cause of phantom operation of a valve. Unintended actions can certainly be as serious as actions that do not happen as intended.

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DBDOC detects this situation in a useful way to protect client systems. Composer does not detect this. What about S+ Engineering 2.1?

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https://gmcl.com/Help/build_error_84.html


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Geoff Michaels   

asked 3 months ago
Closed



Best Answer

1

Hi Geoff,
I can't help with S+ Engineering 2.1, but the use of tuning lines and the block manager spec synch function can address this problem with current versions of Composer. While it is not a fully automatic process it does remove the manual entry requirement not only for the target block, S1 but also alarm condition, S2. From memory the block manager is part of the standard Composer product from version 5.0 but was an option on earlier versions.

Chers,

Alan

Alan   

answered 3 months ago


 


By Geoff Michaels on 8/17/2017 | Like (0) | Report

Thanks, Alan. I have seen documentation of this feature. It depends on people adding correct text to the CLDs prior to cloning the logic. In the systems I have worked with, not one has done this (that I noticed). The number of errors that occur in the wild prove that intricate techniques for new logic cannot prevent Composer from accepting errors in existing logic. Thus, the question remains of whether or not S+ Engineering 2.1 will detect these errors directly, to protect the users. As I am sure you are aware, it is a crap shoot if an unintended action is more harmful than a missed one. Our clients do not shoot craps.


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Answers

1

Hi Geoff,
I can't help with S+ Engineering 2.1, but the use of tuning lines and the block manager spec synch function can address this problem with current versions of Composer. While it is not a fully automatic process it does remove the manual entry requirement not only for the target block, S1 but also alarm condition, S2. From memory the block manager is part of the standard Composer product from version 5.0 but was an option on earlier versions.

Chers,

Alan

Alan   

answered 3 months ago


 


By Geoff Michaels on 8/17/2017 | Like (0) | Report

Thanks, Alan. I have seen documentation of this feature. It depends on people adding correct text to the CLDs prior to cloning the logic. In the systems I have worked with, not one has done this (that I noticed). The number of errors that occur in the wild prove that intricate techniques for new logic cannot prevent Composer from accepting errors in existing logic. Thus, the question remains of whether or not S+ Engineering 2.1 will detect these errors directly, to protect the users. As I am sure you are aware, it is a crap shoot if an unintended action is more harmful than a missed one. Our clients do not shoot craps.


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0

No information can be given as SPE 2.1 is not yet officially released.

Govindaraj   

answered 3 months ago


 


By Geoff Michaels on 8/20/2017 | Like (0) | Report

Thanks. Obviously, if SPE 2.1 will do this, the feature must already be in place and under test by the alpha / beta sites. The only information I got privately was that there is not yet any significant new error checking implemented. Do you think it should be?


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0

SPE 2.1 is not yet officially released, so can not be answered

This is not the right forum to discuss the issues on product under Development

Deshabhushan   

answered 3 months ago


 


By Geoff Michaels on 8/21/2017 | Like (0) | Report

Thanks.

This is a forum for experts. Who else ought to have knowledge about this area? The product is scheduled for release Q2 of 2018, so it better have important things developed by now. It will be used for systems controlling plants worth many billions.

If people are not already testing this type of error detection, one must conclude it is not included. In two decades, Composer never implemented this. Obviously, if SPE 2.1 will do this, the feature must already be in place and under test by the alpha / beta sites. So far, information I was given privately was that there is not yet any significant new error checking implemented.

There are risks and vulnerabilities involved that I am sure you and other experts understand. Do you think these should be addressed by SPE 2.1?


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