Network simulation

hello, i am doing a masters research and need to do a simulation updradin from AC410 to AC800M. I would like a simulation done for my network upgrade for my research. Can you do this for me

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asked 3 months ago



I can help you. Please send me more details about your job to khe1412 at gmail.

It is possible to convert AC410 by conversion tool Ampl2m. Automated conversion cannot do the complete AC410 software conversion due to significant difference with application handling between AC400 and AC800M. Manual programming and experience is important part of the conversion process.

Post-conversion manual job for one AC410 cpu may take 2-3 weeks depends on how tricky is original software written.

However 3 weeks job is much easier than half year manual reprogramming AC400 to AC800M.


answered 3 months ago


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The AC 800M controller can easily be simulated by running a SoftController in a computer.

The AC410 is another model of controller for which, as far as I can tell, there exist no simple method to simulate. ABB in Norway has made a simulator, but I believe it requires dedicated and proprietary hardware.

The control network communication is very different between these controllers. The AC410 runs MB300, a proprietary, but IEEE 802.3 compliant protocol (it uses Ethernet as media) while the AC 800M runs MMS, a somewhat more openly standardized protocol based on regular Ethernet IP and TCP.

The protocol specification is, at least in the case of MB300 proprietary. The upper (OSI) layers of MB300 has a lot in common with GCOM, which is (was) more widely used. The ABB Advant Master documentation suite has a user manual dedicated for GCOM. The lower layers are very different though.

MMS is simpler in its design (offering query/answer and write/reply methods) while MB300 has full bodied features for automatic routing, media redundancy, ordering, subscribing, on event delivery, prioritation, etc.

If networking is what you have specialized your thesis on, you seem to have taken on a challenging task... :-) For pure conversion of PLC code and type circuits, there exist a number of methods. See the other reply.

Stefan Stromqvist   

answered 3 months ago


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Hello Kamil, Have you got my email?

AC800M as Modbus Slave (1.0)  Download

Source: AC800M


answered 3 months ago


By kamil.herman on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

Yes, just reading. It seems you need to test your MB300 network for communication errors between AC410 each other if I got the point well.
Aging MB300 network use to cause a lot of troubles especially if yellow thick coaxial cable is installed.
You can investigate MB300 status by searching for "MB300 Checksum errors" in System alarm list at HMI engineering station. Each Checksum error means collision in network, reflection from oxidized connection between coax cable and terminators or as a consequence of EM interference.
Yellow coaxial cable can be upgraded to ethernet structured cabling using ethernet switches, metalic or FO cables, AUI/RJ45 converters at every AC410.

By Mildred on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

i did some system check using SPDC tool but i do not have the software to generate the report. can i share it with you

By kamil.herman on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

What is it SPDC tool? I never heard about. How does it work?

By Mildred on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

rather SDPC tool used to check errors on the network

By Mildred on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

let me send to your email

By Mildred on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

Have you got it?

By kamil.herman on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

You can do research of your AC410 Control system in other way:
- search for "Checksum errors" in System status alarm window. Checksum error means hardware error in MB300 communication between AC410 each other and with HMI system.
One Checksum error per week is not a problem, but several Checksum error per hour is a serious problem that must be solved soon
- red crosses in HMI displays mean MB300 communication is stopped between AC410 and 800xA HMI system
- connect to each AC410 one-by-one in Online builder and check system messages. If there are hardware errors in AC410, system errors come to white command prompt window of Online builder.
- investigate CPU load of each AC410 in Online builder by command ANPER , select graphical recording with 1 second update. If the system load is greater then 90 percent then AC410 is heavily loaded.

By Stefan Stromqvist on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

The SPDC tool can assist with collecting system messages from all nodes, but is less good with translating them into plain English.

If yoy paste them here we can give it a try.

I assume a lot of 17 8 errors that originate in a physical error. 17 3 is node down and 17 7 is node up. The OnLine Builder message log function have translation for the hexadecimal parts, eg MAC checksum error, Carrier Lost, Reflection, etc.

But based on what I read here, Kamil is spot on. I can only agree with him. Replace thick wire with AUI transceivers, RJ45 cables and wire up a switched network

With introduction of OPC, it is common to see MB300 flow problems that stem from application overload due to improperly configured OPC client, or plain overload. AKS contain several threads on this topic of tuning OPC DA for MB300. Search & read.

By Mildred on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

how do i paste the spdc file here

By Stefan Stromqvist on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

You do not.

SPDC probably require a license to open.

Better follow Kamil’s suggestion and work with OnLine Builder, controller by controller, RTA by RTA.

The OnLine can translate messages to some detail. Literally all of the 17 8 family of hardware failure events.

With aging equipment, failures like the ones described are natural, almost on schedule as equipment ages.

By Mildred on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

ok thank you

By Mildred on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

if the entire power plant DCS is to be upgraded in one project: 8 AC410 computers, 5 AC110, and 3 AC70 ON MB300 network. Would the power station be shut down at once?

By Stefan Stromqvist on 1/28/2018 | Like (0) | Report

Hard for me to tell as there are many factors at play; but likely a shutdown will be required. If you send a mail to stefan dot stromqvist at se dot abb dot com I will try to forward it to someone better fitted to answer that last question.

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